Are CRGV ‘clusters’ – in the New Forest, Leigh & Guildford – real or apparent?

There have been forty six confirmed cases of Alabama Rot in dogs in England between December 2012 to December 2014 (a further one case was in Northern Ireland) (1).

Twenty five cases – 54% of all confirmed cases – are in three ‘cluster’ regions: New Forest (Hampshire) – sixteen cases (34%), Leigh (Greater Manchester) – five cases (11%) and Guildford (Surrey) – four cases (9%). Are these ‘clusters’ real or apparent?

A further twenty one cases (46%) were reported in the rest of England.

cases-alabama-rot-by-area (1)

Could these clusters occur by chance? Or is their a trigger in the environment in these areas that makes dogs more prone to get CRGV disease? Or were vets in these areas more aware of CRGV symptoms and hence reported the cases more than the rest of UK vets?

See the All CRGV cases map from AlabamaRot.co.uk (at 18th April 2015) (1). The three ‘clusters’ (figures 1 and 2) are compared to incidence in the rest of the UK (figure 3).

manchester-crgv
Figure 1: CRGV cluster around Manchester area.
south
Figure 2: CRGV clusters in New Forest and Guildford, Surrey.
uk-crgv
Figure 3: CRGV all confirmed UK cases (November 2012 – April 18th 2015)

 

In a reply to a letter by Ralph Smith, who was intrigued by the number of dogs visiting the New Forest (4), Holm and others  said that 10 (33%) of the 30 cases were in the New Forest (2).

Ten dogs had been in the New Forest National Park shortly (four hours to 14 days) before developing skin lesions and/or becoming unwell. (3)

“Ten of the 30 dogs reported with CRGV had been walked in the New Forest over the two weeks before developing skin lesions and/or developing other clinical signs. It is difficult to know at this stage whether this truly represents an increased disease incidence in the New Forest or an increased awareness of disease in that location. At the time of data collection there was little information available nationally to veterinary surgeons on this disease but local…” (2)

Four (13%) cases were in Guildford, Surrey and the balance 16 (54%) cases in the rest of the UK (3) (Figure 4).

Figure 1: Are the cases of CRGV in the New Forest and Guildford areas a 'cluster' or do they occur by chance?
Figure 4: Map to show distribution of where confirmed cases lived [November 2012 to March 2014]. (Zoomed in view shows distribution of cases in the South of England as there were proportionally more cases from this area) (3)

References

(1) Street, C.G., UK map of Alabama Rot (CRGV) cases (November 2012  to todays date). Available online: https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zIJgTtl9x6zk.kif7awTR9hAA

(2) Walker, D.J., Holm, L., Newton, R. and O’Conner, C. (2015) ‘CRGV in dogs visiting the New Forest’, Veterinary Record, vol. 176, no. 15, pp. 392-392. Extract available online.

(3) Holm, L.P., Hawkins, I., Robin, C., Newton, R.J., Jepson, R., Stanzani, G., McMahon, L.A., Pesavento, P., Carr, T., Cogan, T., Couto, C.G., Cianciolo, R. and Walker, D.J. (2015) ‘Cutaneous and renal glomerular vasculopathy as a cause of acute kidney injury in dogs in the UK’, Veterinary Record, vol. accepted January 21st 2015, no. available free online 23rd March 2015, pp. 1-12.

(4) Smith, R. (2015) ‘CRGV in dogs visiting the New Forest’, Veterinary Record, vol. 176, no. 15, pp. 391-391. Extract available online.

12 Replies to “Are CRGV ‘clusters’ – in the New Forest, Leigh & Guildford – real or apparent?”

  1. I am very convinced with what I already know and have read too many things add up here

    However there is another possibility too

    Mostly seen as conspiracy theory but seen as and fact are different

    The other thing we may want to consider as a possibility that can’t yet be rules out is geo-engineering the spraying of extremely fine metal particle’s to enhance\manipulate the inner atmosphere of our planet
    Many governments have admitted to this to later deny

    No matter the truth of this is

    Both potential causes are more effected in wind concentrated areas ie woodland, water corses ect ect

    Also note that costal regions of the country are most prone first hit by rain and wind

    Also please note

    That before 2012 only a few cases have ever been noted correct me if I am wrong but two gray hounds in USA and germany and a great Dane in the UK

    So here’s my thought train

    If it is any kind of particle ingested or inhaled I would expect a great Dane and a gray hound the last to get it in the modern world and I would imagine that breeds like a beagle perfect to contract this more than most breeds they have short front legs and also are a scent hound constantly sniffing they will stray more from there owners and also follow many paths other dogs have

    If the particles have to be in contact with the skin short dogs also are the main subject

    Can we please have a list of noted case breeds involved and a time line so we can study a map of 2013 then 2014 ect rough location is enough for example cw8 would be fine

    For the record fallout in any water course if nothing the ppm (particles per million) would be next to nothing maybe evern ppt however swamps ponds ect. With no over flow or stream of anykind would only act as a concentration pool only ever adding ppm’s of either possible contaminant

    Please bere in mind
    Friday, 11 March
    Fukushima Daiichi nuclear disaster 2011

    2012 dogs start showing symptoms now as to follow the rest of this paragraph we would like to conclude that cases have decreased as fallout from Fukushima is slowly getting more under control

    As to if this is the case or not I don’t know please inform us
    Very interesting my money is still on fallout however we can’t take the science route if we don’t look at every eventuality

    Any thoughts or info please let me/us all know

    1. Laura Holm of Anderson Moores Vet Specialists wrote about the possibility of nuclear radiation being the cause of Alabama Rot. She wrote in October 2016: “I have come across comments indicating that people are concerned about CRGV being the result of radiation poisoning. All possibilities are being carefully considered, but the histopathological changes seen with CRGV are different from those seen in the kidney following radiation damage – namely with CRGV, the glomerular capillaries specifically are targeted, whereas, with radiation nephropathy, the vessels throughout the interstitium undergo damage.” http://alabamarot.co.uk/is-crgv-alabama-rot-the-result-of-radiation-poisoning/

  2. Thanks for the kind acknowledgement of my posts, and the links to more info. Is there any point you are trying to make, though? Please feel free to directly address any of the points I am making with your own questions, challenges or whatever. I have my own ideas on what is causing this, but they could be wrong, of course, and I am genuinely seeking the truth here.

    To reiterate: These appear to be classic radiation exposure symptoms and I want someone to try to prove to me that the cause cannot be radioactive fallout (dogs coming into contact with and ingesting particles that dropped out of the air).

    Prove that the cause cannot be radioactive fallout, or admit the possibility and fearlessly investigate it.

    This is not scaremongering. If this is radiation, then there is a lot that we can do about it, and I have the information to hand, so please go ahead. I invite and challenge you, Anderson Moores, and anyone else who reads this to challenge the truth of anything I have stated here, and/or provide evidence that eliminates radioactive fallout as the cause of CRGV.

  3. PS Apologies if the above posts were not quite focused on the clustering: Just getting to know the site.

    The apparent clustering seems entirely consistent with:
    a) collection and deposition of radioactive particles by forests b) random rain-out of radioactive particles on open land (see above).

    This is not mere theory. The Chernobyl disaster polluted some patches of e.g. Wales where it rained out and hardly touched others. Google fallout and forests and you’ll get papers and books on the subject.

    Note also that main clusters are in the South and West of the country. The prevailing wind (also the jet stream from Fukushima) rains out on the south and west of the country. I once worked in Plymouth, i.e. the South-West. It rained and rained and rained. Lancashire where the westerly winds hit the Pennines is notorious for its rain (Manchester??) – and has another big cluster . Notoriously FLAT areas, e.g. York plain and East Anglia are practically CRGV-free.

    Look in this map. There’s marked bias to the west and south:
    http://alabama-rot.org.uk/?page_id=58

    The absence of cases in West Wales is problematic. Maybe it got lucky this time, and the particles just did not rain out as the Fukushima plume passed over (in America, the Fukushima fallout rained out on the EAST Coast, not the west). With so few cases to go on, it’s difficult to say, but maybe it’s the lower population/less dogs, or less awareness/reporting, less forests, less dog-walking there?

    The apparent void in the midlands could be that particles rained out in the almost-unpopulated Welsh mountains. Victorian engineers channelled water from Welsh reservoirs to the Midlands precisely because Wales gets the rain but has hardly any people (and dogs) and the Midlands don’t get enough.

    At any rate, widely distributed clusters suggests that it the cause is something environmental – not uniform, but random and patchy – like, for instance rain and, say, nuclear fallout . If it is environmental, what can you do about it?

    The answer is: Lots – and even the scant advice in Anderson Moores video does not make a lot of sense to me. Just because one dog still got CRGV DESPITE washing does NOT mean that washing does no good. Just in case this IS radioactive particles – or God knows what else – you can avoid forests, get your dog a muzzle, buy or make dog leg protectors -yes, they sell them – and/or wash your dog and most certainly change your boots when you get back to the house and don’t tread it in.

    If you have the time and money, buy a decent pancake Geiger, or even a cheap twenty-quid Geiger tube for your Android and help the research by comparing readings at the forest floor and one metre from the ground. Report them here and help eliminate (or establish) deposited radiation as a cause. That, at least, is more than the authorities – or the vets – have managed to do or even suggest you do so far.

    Meanwhile, avoid sniffing at the bottom of trees if you can :o).

      1. Hi Chris,
        Only just noticed the reply. You know we love your site, but it would help you to keep the “fire” going if your and our replies triggered an e-mail to the poster. Don’t know how much work that is for you, but when you go to the time and trouble of posting, it’s would probably be worth it. Hope this helps not hinders.

          1. I could Google it or get my son to look into it for you. I’m a full-time coder so not scared of tech., but don’t know how WordPress works yet. Keep up the good work anyhow.

  4. No mystery to me. CRGV is not a disease, just a posh name for the symptoms, which are classic symptoms of ingestion of and exposure to, wait for it… radioactive dust/particles/fallout (forests and grasslands with bushes where your dog can sniff are very good at collecting and concentrating it). Remember Fukushima, Chernobyl? They are both still leaking, of course. http://www.enenews.com

    Take no notice of the videos. If you want to prevent your dog from getting this, muzzle it when you go out, and at least wash/dip the paws when you get in! No guarantees, though.
    See for yourself:
    http://www.dogfooddangers.com/news/healthy-pets-radiation-sickness.php

    Forests Collect Nuclear Fallout:
    https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=QyhrCQAAQBAJ&pg=PA27&lpg=PA27&dq=forests+fallout&source=bl&ots=MNHgJc8tRn&sig=i4vUrQg_91E1SloZ1SAao9Q3z8E&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjP-fqRy5TLAhVGJJoKHUf9CooQ6AEIUTAL#v=onepage&q=forests%20fallout&f=false

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